What's your take on the images that
you're seeing currently come out of
Beijing of of these leaders embracing
and you know this relationship that they
often describe as one with no limits.
>> Well, it's it's pretty frustrating as a
person who supports Ukraine and and uh
who calls Putin's invasion of Ukraine a
illegal invasion. Um uh you know, Putin
is a war criminal. Here he is being
honored on red carpets um around the
world starting with Alaska and here in
in these images that you're playing
right now. Um you know he's not an
isolated leader. He's um seems to be
getting a lot of attention from a lot of
very important people and it's very
frustrating when when if you just look
at the s simple facts of the matter he
invaded Ukraine. He is killing Ukrainian
civilians every night. Um for what
purpose? What is he killing Ukrainian
civilians for? It's it's uh he's a
murderer. He's a war criminal. He's an
indicted he's indicted by the
International Criminal Court and here he
is with all this backs slapping and
bonomy with all these individuals and
it's very awful to watch.
>> Yeah. I mean, as you say, it started in
in Alaska with with Donald Trump
welcoming him and and um you know,
giving him sort of this idea that that
he can travel to multiple countries ac
across the globe and and have these
sorts of red carpets um you know, laid
out for him. And at the summit, he he
pointed the finger of blame. I mean not
surprising that he did this but he did
point the finger of blame as he has done
so uh for the longest time on the west
for for triggering uh the situation in
Ukraine and and also talked about the
fact that there was this push uh for
Ukraine to join NATO which was something
that he was just not going to tolerate.
>> It's it's it's like gaslighting uh in in
the most extreme way. He's I mean he
invaded Ukraine. No, nobody else invaded
Ukraine. he invaded Ukraine. And so for
him to be blaming the West for him
invading Ukraine is just an absurdity
that makes no sense. And and what's
interesting is that he just repeats it
over and over and over again to the
point where some people are even
starting to like question their own
their own like what their own eyes,
their own ears, their own analysis. Um
it's it's plain and simple. Nobody else
invaded Ukraine other than him. um he
did it unprovoked and um and he's got to
pay a price for it and and all this
nonsense that somehow Ukraine has got to
do something. Ukraine is just
desperately trying to keep their
independence trying not to become part
of Russia, not to be occupied, not to
have their women raped and their men
tortured and killed, which is what
happens to Ukrainians in occupied
territory. and and for anyone to blame
Ukraine, anyone to take the
responsibility away from Putin is is
just a horrible abomination. And and uh
and again to watch these images of all
these world leaders giving Putin red
carpet treatment is is just such an
absurdity. It's it's hard to hard to
really process.
>> Um Mr. Browder, do you believe that the
West has let Ukraine down? they've
talked about for for the last few years
and and shown some action in terms of
you know giving Ukraine the weapons that
it has asked for. But ultimately
one Ukrainian politician said to me,
"The Americans and and the Europeans
don't want us to lose, but they don't
necessarily want us to win either
because they're worried about how the
Russians may react if if they do uh you
know give us too much and support us too
much."
>> Yeah. Well, I think that that's exactly
the analysis of what happened during the
Biden presidency. And and it was it was
no secret. The um Jake Sullivan, the
president's national security adviser,
uh actually said those words out loud,
which is that they want to give
Ukrainians enough weapons so they don't
lose, but they're terribly afraid of
what happens with if Ukraine were to
win. So, that was under Biden, but we
have a completely different set of
circumstances under President Trump
where he's basically saying it's
Ukraine's fault that the war is going
on. and and uh he wants I mean very
explicitly he wants Ukraine to basically
surrender and so it's it's a lot worse
now than it was before. I mean Ukraine
was at least getting American support
before. Now now there's no more military
support coming from the United States
and and uh to to make sure that Putin
doesn't succeed, it's going to cost
Europe and the UK and and other
continued allies of of Ukraine a lot
more money um just just to to stay
standing still.
Mr. Browder, always good to talk to you.
Thank you so much for joining us here on
the program.